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Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 26, 2009 4:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead Era(s)????

Hey GC and DM--don't take this the wrong way, but what I am asking is do you really see distinctions in the 70s era that I see (ie, roughly comparable levels) in the 60s? I trust you two to be ojective about it.

Of course, because of JOTS I try to avoid even talking about the 70s, but I suppose I could see a distinction for 72-73, then 74, but then I see 75-79 in roughly similar terms, esp having been there...But, this could very well be because of my biases...

Just wondering--do you see it because of your intense interest or because you think they made shifts...if that makes sense.

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Poster: deadmax Date: Feb 26, 2009 5:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead Era(s)????

Well, William, the reason I can hear distinctions is because I actually take the time to listen to the shows.

See if that works for you.

(insert snotty smilie here)

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Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 26, 2009 8:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead Era(s)????

Smart ass. Last time I consider you objective.

Objectify this:

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Feb 26, 2009 9:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead Era(s)????

"Of course, because of JOTS I try to avoid even talking about the 70s, but I suppose I could see a distinction for 72-73, then 74, but then I see 75-79 in roughly similar terms, esp having been there...But, this could very well be because of my biases..."

Why me Tell? All I've ever wanted is to understand your they should have ceased to exist comments. I'm not going to argue about innovation or preference. What I get confused by is I have to believe you must have had a consistantly shitty time at Grateful Dead shows. Were they as great later? I think most of us objective fans say no regardless of when we saw shows ( or even for those who didn't ). I just have a hard time getting my head around thinking what it would be like to have a shitty time at every show I saw. FAR from that otherwise I don't think I'd be here. There's just too much to be said about the EXPERIENCE.

You saw 75 in Golden Gate Park if I recall. You saw that 75 Winterland show which you bring up so I know you have a fondness for. Do you regret going?

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Feb 27, 2009 3:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead Era(s)????

Mr. Tell...

I hear what you;re saying, and there's no arguing that a far bigger shift in sound/demeanor/overall band identity can be seen from the late 60's/early 70's to about the 1975 incarnation.

BUT....any close listening of the years between '75 and '79 reveals some very noticeable changes:

First, you have to start with the return of Mickey, meaning the band now has 2 drummers and an added percussion sound missing for much of the past 3-4 years...they're also working their way back from a nearly year-off hiatus, so I liken the '75-'76 period to a new car you want to take slow and steady on the road before you really open it up to see what it can do.

So in '76 you hear the band exploring some new material from Blues for Allah, but sort of feeling their way along as well...most of the shows that year are played at a slow pace...listen to a St. Stephen from '76 then compare it to any from a year later and you can hear a difference. Ditto for songs like H>S>F. They're a band getting their groove back to a large extent in '76, getting used to each other again, and then hitting a stride in '77 that--personally--I think is unparalleled in their history. Again, I think I've laid out ad nauseum the reasons for this and won't do so again...suffice it to say it was a "perfect storm" of excellence.

Then almost from the start of '78 you can hear a sense of "well, where do we take it from there"?...and the result is a harder rock sound effort that often yields powerhouse results but also gives up some tightness and fluidity and results in some sloppy efforts...this carries into '79, when you can hear the drop off of Keith's contributions, then the entrance of Brent...and it's hard to argue they didn't get a HUGE change in sound when that occurred...the acoustic piano sound yields to the Hammond B-3 organ sound and far better harmonies vocally than Donna ever could offer.

I still don't like the '79 sound nearly as much as '77-78, but it WAS a helluva change.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 27, 2009 6:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead Era(s)????

Hey GC--thanks for all that! I defn agree about the return of Mickey, and now that you mention it, I see exactly what you are getting at with 79, and some how I have always conflated that with the arrival of Brent. Thus, I probably lumped 77-79, and just naively viewed the change as Brent, if you follow.

I can see what you're getting at, and appreciate the articulation. As I said to Jots, I really do view this whole problem (me & 68) as exactly that (my problem)--and though I act as if you guys have the problem, that's just fun & games...

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Feb 27, 2009 7:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead Era(s)????

Hey, let's face it, man...everyone who weighs in here, daily, on the Grateful Dead minutiae to the extent we do....we've ALL got a problem!

or, put another way:

"I can't believe I threw up in front of Dean Wormer."

"face it, Flounder....you threw up ON Dean Wormer."

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Feb 27, 2009 8:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead Era(s)????

" Hey, let's face it, man...everyone who weighs in here, daily, on the Grateful Dead minutiae to the extent we do....we've ALL got a problem!"

great one grendel! Although it's a problem we all must enjoy ( even if out SO's don't ).

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Feb 27, 2009 11:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead Era(s)????

I'm working on the S.O. dilemma...unfortunately it's having more of a Beethoven-Clockwork-Orange-Reprogramming effect at the moment ;-)

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Poster: high flow Date: Feb 27, 2009 11:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead Era(s)????

What problem? I don't have a problem. I can quit any time. I just don't want to.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 27, 2009 7:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead Era(s)????

Ah, just as the Germans wondered why they got blamed for bombing Pearl Harbor.

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Feb 27, 2009 8:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead Era(s)????

'Cause when the going gets tough . . . .

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Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 27, 2009 6:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead Era(s)????

Hey J--for Gawd's sake I hope you know I am entirely joking when I say things like that...? I value your friendship (jeezzz that feels sorta weird...but it's true) hereabouts as much as anyone, I hope from the note above you don't think I actually have any problem with anything you've ever posted here with our exchanges. I for one feel we will always have the Jan night we GROKKED the PATS to defeat and forever established ourselves on Dire's shitlist.

Anyhow, as to your question, to be honest, at the time I went, I really did enjoy myself, but there was a nagging sense that something was missing. I know you'll think this developed later, when I had changed, but at the time, the best way to describe it would be the kid that begs and begs for something, and then is slightly disappointed with the gift but won't dare tell anyone?

Another way to look at it would be that I never pick a DEAD show as "my best concert ever"...that ALWAYS surprises folks that know me--and I actually feel guilty about it.

But, I will say that I loved the two 75 shows more than any others--9-28 & 6-17, as much as anything for the folks I went with, setting, etc. And I defn don't regret spending the $2.50 between the two of them (it was $5 for the one, and nothing for the other).

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Poster: barongsong Date: Feb 27, 2009 10:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead Era(s)????

Hey WT I completely grok what you are saying here
"I really did enjoy myself, but there was a nagging sense that something was missing"
I too had that feeling while I was attending shows and often wished they would play something like they used to back in the 60's or 70's or anytime I hadn't seen them and it wasn't until somewhere in 89-90 I realized that that shit happened before and this is now and this is also very cool and relevant, so I better get all I can out of it while I I'm here. Unfortunately that realization didn't happen until near the end of my Gd experience but it sure made the waning years shows I saw more enjoyable.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Feb 27, 2009 8:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead Era(s)????

right on Tell. I value our friendship here too. I thought I had said something to give you a complex because you singled me out.

I hear what you're saying, it's just for me it's hard because even seeing them when I did they were STILL the only ones that did what they did. Aside from jazz ( like BD mentioned awhile back ), there is no one that could do magical things like the GD. No one. I've seen some great performers but that's not magic. I love live experiences and with the exception of maybe two shows I saw, even a mediocre show beat sitting home watching TV. If I was lucky I had my mind blown, if not lucky the worst was a few moments of serious entertainment.

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Poster: patourkid Date: Feb 26, 2009 5:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead Era(s)????

Great post!!!!! I have often tried to draw lines in my mind were one "Dead" starts and the other one finishes. Thank you all for taking the time to type it out!!!!